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Post by JRK on Dec 17, 2010 9:44:01 GMT -6
Tibor who? Hey Mason what are your thoughts on Alando Tucker's NBA career?
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Post by MasonJogerRoesch on Dec 17, 2010 9:51:48 GMT -6
JRK you are a jerk! Big Ten Player of the Year? First Team All American? Badger All-Time leading scorer? Pick 29th by Phoenix? That Alando Tucker? He really reminds me of Kevin Love.
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Post by JRK on Dec 17, 2010 9:59:01 GMT -6
No, I am talking about the Alando Tucker that has only played 51 games in the NBA. But I suppose he would not have made it without the development done by Bo. Tucker reminds of you of Kevin Love, huh? I was thinking more like a Chris Mullin.
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Post by MasonJogerRoesch on Dec 17, 2010 10:00:57 GMT -6
True True....Vinny Del Negro was my next closest behind Mullin.
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Post by buckinghambadger on Dec 17, 2010 10:14:57 GMT -6
I didn't ask for players that you think Leuer is better than. I didn't ask for you to name PF....I asked for you to name players that Jon Leuer resembles. Leuer is not even close to any of those guys. Bo's defense is so similar to defending in the pros....thats why Badger power forwards do so well in the pro game. Naming random players is awesome thanks for proving my point. GFORCE: Outstanding...you get exalted! Let me finish by saying that I wish Jon Leuer the best after college. respect his game and love watching the Badgers play but I just don't think that he will be drafted that high. Badger success in the pros is far and few between. How are those players better than Leuer? In certain areas yes, but as a whole? Not at all. That is the point I'm making, none of those players resemble Leuer because none have as varied of a skill set as him A 6'10" guy who can shoot is a coveted thing in the NBA. I do think out of those guys Craig Brackens is the closest player to Leuer though and he was a first rounder. Also, "Leuer's ceiling isn't particularly high, but he's really starting to show promise as a potential first-rounder. Said one NBA executive, "If this kid was playing in Europe, we'd all have him in the lottery. He can just play." " Your point about defense doesn't hold much merit as Leuer's defense is fine for a pro game that focuses much less on defense than the college game and especially Wisconsin. It also doesn't matter how successful Wisconsin PF have been in the NBA, Leuer is Leuer.
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Post by buckinghambadger on Dec 17, 2010 10:22:09 GMT -6
The biggest knock is his explosiveness/athleticism, skip to 0:35 in that video.
He's averaging 20 pts, 7.5 boards, 2 blocks, and shooting 51% from the field, 50% on threes, 80% from the line.
He'll go in the 20-40 range.
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Post by MasonJogerRoesch on Dec 17, 2010 10:45:19 GMT -6
I didn't say they were better than him. That is the first time you answered my question with Craig Brackens. Now I will have to follow Brackens career a little closer and see what I think. The fact of the matter is that Leuer is not playing in Europe. I agree if he was, he would be drafted higher. Its something that NBA executives look at that might not be fair for him. Nice dunk against UW-GB. Let see him do that against a Big Ten opponent. His stats especially his shooting will go down this year once the Big Ten season starts. BTW Craig Brackens? Really?
The NBA game focuses on one on one defense. How is that less focused on? The offensive skill level is so good at the pro level so it may seem that defense is less focused on. Watch a Scott Skilles led defensive team and you will quickly see that Leuer wouldn't be able to handle it. Wisconsin defense is a product of their offense working the ball so long. They limit the number of possession in the game, therefore limiting scoring chances.
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Post by buckinghambadger on Dec 17, 2010 11:16:30 GMT -6
I didn't say they were better than him. That is the first time you answered my question with Craig Brackens. Now I will have to follow Brackens career a little closer and see what I think. The fact of the matter is that Leuer is not playing in Europe. I agree if he was, he would be drafted higher. Its something that NBA executives look at that might not be fair for him. Nice dunk against UW-GB. Let see him do that against a Big Ten opponent. His stats especially his shooting will go down this year once the Big Ten season starts. BTW Craig Brackens? Really? The NBA game focuses on one on one defense. How is that less focused on? The offensive skill level is so good at the pro level so it may seem that defense is less focused on. Watch a Scott Skilles led defensive team and you will quickly see that Leuer wouldn't be able to handle it. Wisconsin defense is a product of their offense working the ball so long. They limit the number of possession in the game, therefore limiting scoring chances. Scott Skiles defense in the NBA is a rarity, that is why the Bucks are one of the top defensive NBA teams. The NBA puts less of an emphasis on defense. Leuer went up against the best NBA players this summer and from all reports played pretty well. Have you watched a Wisconsin game? Always man to man. You are completely wrong in the defensive philosophy of Wisconsin as well. Wisconsin doesn't try to limit possessions, they try to take good shots. Whether that shot comes with 30 seconds left on the shot clock or 5 seconds, they work for a good shot. It is all about points per possession, not limiting possessions. Bo Ryan also puts an emphasis on points per possession on the defensive end, force bad shots, don't allow easy looks. Again, it isn't a product of limiting possessions or using a slow offense as defense.
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Post by MasonJogerRoesch on Dec 17, 2010 11:27:28 GMT -6
What is my defensive philosophy of Wisconsin? I don't remember stating it. I did say that they limit possessions, which they do. The defense definitely is impacted by their offense. Watch the next game and count the number of possessions that last 5 seconds or the number that last 20 seconds. The latter will outnumber the former. Slow offense never was said either. We used an offense very similar to the swing when I was in college. I understand exactly how it works. I never said Bo's emphasis wasn't effective in college. I think he is a great coach. But we are not talking about Bo. We are talking about Leuer.
Please point me to where I can find out about the NBA putting less emphasis on defense. I think I can name the last 5 NBA Defensive Players of the Year....but I'm having a tough time thinking of the last 5 NBA Offensive Players of the Year.
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Post by JRK on Dec 17, 2010 11:43:28 GMT -6
To be fairly serious here, since we all follow the Badgers and the Bucks I think the closest guy on the Bucks that Leuer resembles is Illyasova. So I'd like to see how Mason and BHB compared the skills of these 2 players.
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Post by MasonJogerRoesch on Dec 17, 2010 11:47:13 GMT -6
Fair....I think skill wise Leuer may be better. I think we can all agree that the energy and hustle that Ersan plays with is what makes him special. Ersan has been asked to guard anywhere from the 5 to the 3, something that I don't think Jon can do.
I don't think their games are very similar so its tough to compare.
I want to again say I hope I am wrong about Leuer, its just and opinion I have.
But I believe Leuer was once compared to Jon Brockman so....
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Post by buckinghambadger on Dec 17, 2010 11:50:17 GMT -6
You said that their defense was a product of their offense, that is simply not true. Limiting possessions has nothing to do with defensive efficiency. Wisconsin plays tough, good man to man defense. They don't take risks and they try to force tough shots.
Limiting possessions has no effect on defense, only on the score. Losing 55-50 is no different and no better defense than losing 80-72.
I think Ilyasova is a fair comparison, but Leuer still needs to add strength. I think Leuer also has a better handle than Ilyasova, but Ilyasova may have a little more explosiveness.
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Post by MasonJogerRoesch on Dec 17, 2010 11:54:34 GMT -6
As the number of defensive possession goes up...playing defense becomes tougher. Anyone who play college basketball at any level can attest to that. So limiting possessions does have an effect.
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Post by buckinghambadger on Dec 17, 2010 12:09:18 GMT -6
As the number of defensive possession goes up...playing defense becomes tougher. Anyone who play college basketball at any level can attest to that. So limiting possessions does have an effect. That is just not true. That would depend on many different variables including fatigue, drive, discipline. I could just as easily make an argument that a longer time per possession makes playing defense tougher.
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Post by MasonJogerRoesch on Dec 17, 2010 12:15:53 GMT -6
So those variables don't have any affect on defense? You know from experience? A longer time per possession does make playing defense tougher.
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